ACTION NEEDED NOW TO SAVE THE SEASON

There are a lot of posts coming in now, thick and fast, regarding whether or not MT can win the championship and go up. I detect a sense of urgency and rightly so. Many comments are re: the fact that we could miss out because of the draws we are getting and 2 points lost each time.
After the draw against BS last Saturday the concensus is that MT did not play well, the team blend was wrong and more worryingly we missed the 2 Newport lads who went back and had been doing well for us. This is true. Worryingly not only did they play well for us, they scored a few too.
We need a striker who is going to slam the ball in the net every time he gets a chance and we need a central defender.
The season for MT is only just over half way through, 34 games and we've played 18 - 16 left. I know some other teams have played more games than us. Plenty to play for, a maximum of 48 points available for MT.
Information posted to say Larkhall will not be applying for promotion due to cost of ground upgrades. I think that is sad for the lads who play every week and the hardy fans.
What about Willand? Any news because last night they were beaten on penalties, 6-7, after drawing 1-1 with Torquay United of League Division 2. By all accounts Willand should have won the game in 90 mins and they only lost on penalties after the 18th spot kick. OK, it was a Cup game, Devon St. Lukes Bowl, but Torquay put out a strong side, by all accounts. That is an excellant performance by Willand, and they are top of our league and yes we did win 1-0 at their ground a few weeks back. Point is that Willand are far more consistent than us and that's how you win titles -- consistency.
I would like to suggest to the Trust and Shep that we need to see if a Welsh team, higher up the divisions than us can loan us a striker and defender until the end of the season. Newport have helped us out but they are in trouble themselves at the moment and need their good lads. Lets ask local clubs, within commuting distance, ie., Cardiff and Swansea, if they can loan us a couple of lads from their acadamies. We wouldn't get their reserves anyway.
We need to get back up as soon as we can. You can idealise all you want gents and be cynical about success junkies but I want success for the club and am not ashamed to say so. I don't want MT ending up playing on the Bont because there's nothing left. We may never see the days back again when Merthyr had a crowd of 21,000 at PP or see the headlines Merthyr 2 Manchester City 4, but we need something to carry on the history and aura of the club.

funnily enough every manager in the premiership is looking for one of those strikers,and if we borrow academy players from other clubs that really instils confidence in our academy players.

The way I look at it is this, if we win promotion or win the championship this season it will be fantastic, but if we dont, we dont and we will go again next season to give it another crack, this club is here forever and is not going anywhere..

Top strikers cost a fortune, you only have to look in the press today Fleetwood of the conference are considering selling their top score for 1million....!!! a world away from us..

We have a tight budget and must work withing that and if it permits Sheppy or Danny to find a goal scorer then great, but we as a club will not waste money chasing glory, its all about sustainability..

Willand lost to Torquay United last night and were indeed unlucky to do so, but the Torquay United side was entirely made up of youth and fringe players with only the reserve keeper Martin Rice who played a full game against Willand, featured as an unused sub in Torquays game at Plymouth a week ago..

Totally agree we missed the Newport lads last Saturday but Bishop Sutton were a decent side who have a terrific away record this season

Just out of interest is rustic or CF48martyr on the Board of the Trust?

joan of ark wrote:Just out of interest is rustic or CF48martyr on the Board of the Trust?

May I ask if you are a member of the Trust, joan?

joan of ark wrote:Just out of interest is rustic or CF48martyr on the Board of the Trust?

And just out of interest "Joan", are you related to Adam Brown?

joan of ark wrote:Just out of interest is rustic or CF48martyr on the Board of the Trust?

Yes I am on the board and have been for many years

A bit over the top; personally be happy with top 4 this year, with a push for the title next.

We've suffered with the loss of Tariq and Matty H, big style.

Lets not forget how lucky we are to be where we are; a thriving supporters owned club, the first one in the whole of the EU to access the European funding we've just got approved.

I do you find you anti Trust comments very disappointing, Joan.

joan of ark wasnt she burnnt at the steak? i do find your comments somewhat negative joan but i respect your entitled to an opinion even though i think its pants!!!!!!!!

I agree with Typey. (Yes, another promotion this season would be fine but I personally think, looking at the situation that Merthyr will finish third or fourth)
If we go up this season, some will be demanding promotion again next season!!
No-one is saying that we aren't going to go up this year or we haven't the confidence. But another season at this level will help the club progress at the right pace. Going up and coming straight back down would not help and reaching the SL would present a harder task!
We are here for the long term!
I remember studying the play St Joan by GB Shaw for A-level!!!

to answer your question j.o.a.no i am not a board member,i am a lifelong supporter of the club more than happy to watch foot ball at penydarren park and for that i am very grateful to the trust for the hours of unpaid work which they do.Having once being connected with fund raising at the club for many years,i appreciate the tremendous work they are doing,yes i would like promotion this season but so what if we dont,what i see now is a squad of players giving their all every game i will settle for that this season if we dont get promoted,and then god willing i will be there next season supporting them again whatever.These are only my personal views and opinions.

Personally i would like to see us get promotion this year if it means going that extra mile to achieve this,With the reorganisation of the lower reaches of non league football we do not really know what is around the corner. I would be far more settled if we could go up to the next tier.It would i do not think be an extra financial burden as we would still be playing teams like cinderford who with no disrespect are still village sides.When you go even higher and see teams like cirencester chippenham etc i still see no big financial competition with teams like these.

I think that most of the opinions coming from the person claiming to be Joan of Arc must really be from someone who knows next to nothing about football, and I can't believe they would come from the real JoA. Is it really you Joanie?

that,s a burning question.

I think Joan's confused. Apart from seeming to know little about managing the finances of a business (i.e. not going out and gambling away a large part of any surplus) he or she also spells Arc incorrectly. Perhaps their real name is Noah.

I agree with the supporters who say that consolidation won't do any harm for this year providing we finish strongly ready for a promotion push in 2012/13. If we do go up this season then obviously that's great but the club must be in a strong position so that it can cope with any added financial pressures in the Southern League.

From what I can see from attending home games the club is well run by a committed group of fans so the future can only be positive whatever happens during the rest of this season.

Vaughany wrote:I think Joan's confused. Apart from seeming to know little about managing the finances of a business (i.e. not going out and gambling away a large part of any surplus) he or she also spells Arc incorrectly. Perhaps their real name is Noah.

I agree with the supporters who say that consolidation won't do any harm for this year providing we finish strongly ready for a promotion push in 2012/13. If we do go up this season then obviously that's great but the club must be in a strong position so that it can cope with any added financial pressures in the Southern League.

From what I can see from attending home games the club is well run by a committed group of fans so the future can only be positive whatever happens during the rest of this season.

To be fair Vaughany, Joan does not talk about business finances at all in the post. Even when reading between the lines.

The club, so it seems, has staked a position by applying for promotion and even while this may seem aspirational and a teensy bit ambitious looking at the current position we have to assume it is something that has not been entered into recklessly and has been suitably costed.

What it appears Joan is suggesting here is that what is needed is an instinctive striker and that the two Newport loans will be missed. Neither especially controversial, nor at odds with the position taken by a club that has applied for promotion. If anything Joan's position could be read as complimentary to the position taken by the club with regards promotion.

However, the urgency of the title of the thread, and the dramatic capitalisation may detract from points that in honesty are little different from those made by others, albeit under a less hyperactive headline.

For what it is worth, I doubt now that even were Joan's wish of a striker secured on loan come about it would be enough to secure promotion in itself, the answer to that now is completely beyond the hands of Merthyr and dependent on the performance of teams in games in which we take no part. The only guaranteed thing is that in the Willand vs Larkhall game one has to drop points. Before Saturday number crunchers suggested to me that the best outcome from that game would be a draw. Since Merthyr drew I wonder if that is still the case, or would a Willand win be the best possible. Anyhow I digress.

I am inclined to agree with the cautious on here, a season of consolidation will do no harm but care has to be taken that we are not having this same conversation three or four years from now at the same level, because it seems clear from our travels that Merthyr is by far the biggest club at this level and with that no doubt that comes with the largest overheads. From that I understand the caution, but care needs to be taken. Can a club the size of Merthyr financially sustain perpetually at the level of Western League Premier, I honestly do not know the answer, but if it is the case then I agree with the chap I was chatting to the other week that there would be nothing wrong with another season on the road visiting delightful clubs such as Street and Odd Down, indeed the clubs of the western premier league have been most welcoming and certainly the football on the whole most entertaining, if at times a little frustrating. But if, and this is a big if, attendances over a couple of years, start heading toward the league average, then those overheads will proportionally loom larger and promotion further away than ever. So there maybe dangers with the cautious approach too. Now how is that for some pragmatic fence sitting? hehe.

Interesting that JoA started a debate by making some pointed comments about the team, management etc. I remember similar posts happening a few times in recent years, but the original poster never actually replied to any subsequent posts, so you can read what you want into that. I'm sure we'd all like to see the Club get promotion this season, but not at the expense of it's long term future, as that is surely not the aim of the Trust who have done a fantastic job to date. As a previous post said, every manager would like a striker who puts every chance away but not even Lionel Messi does that, so I hardly think Shep will be able to pick one up for £80 a week.
The question about whether posts have come from Board or Trust members is totally irrelevant, as JoA seems to imply they're a biased view and not in touch with what everyone wants, but that couldn't be further from the truth.
I wonder how long JoA been a supporter, as her/his views seem very short sighted and detrimental to the Club in the long term.

Fair point M Ash that Joan didn't mention finances directly but getting a good striker and defender in will cost money. I don't know the in's and out's of the club's finances so maybe we can afford this and if we can we should look for a couple of players now but if we can't afford it then I don't think we should gamble on getting a couple of players in to get us promoted if it means the club can't balance the books.

DONT PANIC!!, there is still a huge amount to play for , and after all football is a" funny ole game"

fistral10 wrote: I'm sure we'd all like to see the Club get promotion this season, but not at the expense of it's long term future,

The way the club is run now I don't believe any financial risks are likely to be taken for the sake of possible short term success.

As for promotion this season, it appears that if we don't finish top we may still have a chance if we can manage second place. We still have to aim for for the championship, of course, but 2nd would be a fall back position when we would have to hope for the best. That is assuming that Hallen, the other club to have applied for promotion, finish below us!

Regarding the level of football that the club can sustain, the higher we move up through the leagues the better the quality of players we'll need - and that usually means higher wages. So that means crowds have to hold up, or increase, and money from other sources too many to mention (but for one example, sponsorship) needs to build up also. But as is often mentioned elsewhere, our current attendances compare favourably with clubs in the Southern League Premier Division, and even a few higher, so we OUGHT to be able to cope with higher levels of football. But it does take time to build up - remember we started from nothing not long ago.

Vaughany wrote:Fair point M Ash that Joan didn't mention finances directly but getting a good striker and defender in will cost money. I don't know the in's and out's of the club's finances so maybe we can afford this and if we can we should look for a couple of players now but if we can't afford it then I don't think we should gamble on getting a couple of players in to get us promoted if it means the club can't balance the books.

Indeed! And I certainly agree about gambling on the future for promotion now, it seems to me that this is a calculation that Welsh Premiership sides undertake, and a few of those have gone under over the years. Maybe I am wrong on this but it has seemed to me that there has been more than a little gambling on getting a European place.

I don't think I have a copy of the club/society constitution, something I should rectify incidentally, but hasn't it been said on here that the society board is constitutionally bound to a balanced budget? If this is the case then very sensible too and I would not suggest anything different. This I believe is what Wimbledon did early on post-refoundation and on the other hand FCUM has pushed hard season after season until seemingly finding a comfortable level from which to build further, and they are currently I believe attempting to raise funds for a stadium from what is the equivalent of the Southern League premier, a few tiers above where we are currently at. On the other hand Truro has hurtled up the pyramid and the shit well and truly hit the fan there, will see how that has panned out in the coming days.

On the subject of balanced budget this will of course be relevant whatever the season, so thought should be given to some of the suggestions on here regarding that. The club could not for example stay at this level for a few years to save money to then push for promotion. Sure that is how I would run our household budget and if I want something I save for it, but the same cannot work for a business. The club can save whatever we like this year, but if promotion results in outgoings being greater than income year on year then the result would be the same as gambling with the future. I know this wasn't your point but I thought it would be worth adding to the thread as it seems overlooked somewhat. Rather than pushing for promotion with a pool of surplus cash I would have thought it better push for promotion with a sustainable budget to hand and to stick to. Though the pool of cash would indeed help

I did also mention the point about the risks of staying at the same level for a large club. Clubs go bust it seems at Western League level and the Dawlish did not get to start the season. There will be those who will push more for higher levels, this has been suggested, and there has to be an optimum level, one which can best sustain the club, and not reaching this level may have the same detriment financially as overshooting this. Maybe this IS that level, maybe not, board members will no doubt know as they are engaged in the day to day stuff, for the rest of us the AGM should give us a better idea.

Mountain Ash wrote:
I don't think I have a copy of the club/society constitution, something I should rectify incidentally, but hasn't it been said on here that the society board is constitutionally bound to a balanced budget?

Rather than pushing for promotion with a pool of surplus cash I would have thought it better push for promotion with a sustainable budget to hand and to stick to.

I don't think there is a pool of surplus cash! But the rest of your sentence, I think, puts the Board's policy in a nutshell.

Although not the complete constitution, an extract from the statement of the aims of the Trust has appeared in the last 2 issues of the match programme as part of an attempt to encourage people to join. A section relevant to this discussion is:

'To play at the highest level possible, but always operating in a framework of responsible and prudent financial management;'

Merthyr Imp wrote:

Mountain Ash wrote:
I don't think I have a copy of the club/society constitution, something I should rectify incidentally, but hasn't it been said on here that the society board is constitutionally bound to a balanced budget?

Rather than pushing for promotion with a pool of surplus cash I would have thought it better push for promotion with a sustainable budget to hand and to stick to.

I don't think there is a pool of surplus cash! But the rest of your sentence, I think, puts the Board's policy in a nutshell.

Although not the complete constitution, an extract from the statement of the aims of the Trust has appeared in the last 2 issues of the match programme as part of an attempt to encourage people to join. A section relevant to this discussion is:

'To play at the highest level possible, but always operating in a framework of responsible and prudent financial management;'

Nah, I didn't think there was a pool of surplus cash to hand, but just considering out loud the option of staying at this level with the view of building such a surplus. Thanks for the clarification on the constitutional position. Do you think it would be possible for me to pick up a copy of the constitution on match day? Who should I see for that? There wasn't a copy, surprisingly, with the society membership card I received early in the season.

Mountain Ash wrote: Do you think it would be possible for me to pick up a copy of the constitution on match day? Who should I see for that?

I'm sure I've seen a copy somewhere, but I can't remember if it was in hard copy or on the Internet - in which case I can't find a link to it.

May be best to contact the Membership Secretary, Meurig Price.

Joan of Arc (Jeanne D'Arc) is the correct spelling. It has nothing to do with Noah's Ark, just to clarify matters.
I don't really know what the club's board's aims are for the next few years re Merthyr's place in the pyramid. I would suggest they are building up the club one season at a time.
I recall at a meeting last year, it was stated that at present, the highest the club could expect to attain was the Southern League Premier, which sees fair to me.
And as I have stated, the ground grading is at present not good enough for Merthyr to go any higher.
It must also be noted that when Merthyr Town FC was established, there had been some discussion as to whether they wanted to stay in the English pyramid or move to the Welsh pyramid.
And I would suggest that our present level of football is equivalent to The Macwhirter Welsh League Division One.
There doesn't seem much point in aiming too high when we are still at Level Five. No-one can guarantee the club can ever move up from there, so jumping ahead by several seasons seems pointless.
I agree that staying at the same level can be detrimental but it is obvious that most Western League clubs feel happier and are likely to be more solvent by staying where they are. How many of the WL clubs have ever reached the Southern League?