3G and the Conference

Non League Paper

THE Football League must lead the way if 3G pitches are to be allowed in Non-Leagues top two tiers according to Sutton Coldfield Town manager Neil Tooth.

The Evo-Stik NPL Division One South club have had an artificial pitch for two-and-a-half seasons and experienced just one home postponement in that time – due to snow making roads near the ground unsafe.

With the rain continuing to cause havoc across the country, Non-League has seen hundreds of postponements every Saturday.

Despite the obvious positives of 3G, Conference clubs voted against allowing them in the Skrill Premier, North and South, with Ryman Premier leaders Maidstone willing to go to court to challenge the decision.

But Tooth says unless the Football League shows willing, it’ll be difficult for Non-League to accept 3G.

He said: “I’m all for playing football on grass pitches but to be honest, some of the grounds we play on at our level, and especially at this time of year, can’t be considered grass.

“A lot of people are still anti-3G but once you’ve got it, you see first hand the massive positives it brings.

“I think the reason the Conference vote went against is because they don’t want a club getting a 3G pitch and being denied promotion.

“Until the Football League give it the go ahead, I really can’t see the Conference allowing it either. It’s two promotions away for us but when you see the Maidstone situation, it does feel like a kick in the teeth.”

WORTHING Football Club hope that a 3G pitch at Woodside Road will safeguard the future of the club.


Rebels have submitted a planning application with Worthing Borough Council to construct a 3G playing surface and hope to have it installed for next season.

The construction cost will be more than £300,000, funded via commercial mortgage and some forward-funding for pitch usage, and they hope to have the initial investment repaid within three years.

Rebels anticipate that it could take eight weeks to get planning permission but they hope to begin the process of constructing the 3G pitch at the end of this season. It would take 12 weeks to install, which would see the surface in place by July.

With a whole host of games postponed owing to waterlogged pitches in recent weeks, Rebels believe a 3G surface is the way forward.

They have held talks with Worthing College about usage of the pitch, and also plan to speak to local schools about day-time use. Several youth sides would also use the artificial pitch, along with the local community.

Ryman League side Rebels believe around 1,000 to 1,500 players would use the pitch each week, with the increased footfall helping to generate full-and part-time jobs at the club.

Sutton Coldfield is a great case in point. Anyone else remember the mud-bath of a pitch they used to have?

Apparently the Ryman League are in discussions about extending the season until the end of May if needs be. Why can't the Southern League do the same? It's not going to affect us too much but some teams will need to play 4 games a week in March & April because the Southern League insist all fixtures are to be completed by April 27th. There again this unprecedented rain fall we have had recently you would think more teams in this League would install 3G pitches.

cliffyboy wrote:Apparently the Ryman League are in discussions about extending the season until the end of May if needs be. Why can't the Southern League do the same?  It's not going to affect us too much but some teams will need to play 4 games a week in March & April because the Southern League insist all fixtures are to be completed by April 27th. There again this unprecedented rain fall we have had recently you would think more teams in this League would install 3G pitches.

It's better for us for them NOT to extend the season.  They didn't last season and Bridgwater had the 4 game a week scenario.  Arguably with the number of games we had to fit in towards the end of last season cost us a play off win as Hungerford had few postponements and were fresher.  Hopefully the SL will stick to their guns.

Old Sod wrote:It's better for us for them NOT to extend the season.  They didn't last season and Bridgwater had the 4 game a week scenario.

I agree with O.S. A fixture pile up towards the end season will hinder our closest rivals. Whereas, we'll have played our games and 'hopefully' got the points.

With the exception of February 25th, Cirencester have to play two games a week every week until the middle of April. They still have two games to re-arrange, and there's only two free Tuesdays for them before the end of the season. Any more postponements, and they'll be playing three times a week. That can only benefit us. 

As there is more very wet weather forcast, there will obviously be lots more games called off this weekend, and with ground water saturated, it will only take normal rainfall to keep many of those grounds waterlogged for weeks. This can only enhance the case for more 3G pitches to be installed around the country, and with teams like Newport experiencing fixture backlogs it should strengthen the argument that 3G be allowed into the Football League; granted a lot of Newports problems stem from the fact that they ground share with the Rugby team.

You only need to look at the Conference Premier Division to see the spread of the number of games that some teams have managed to play; 'Halifax are on 34 games, while Braintree have only played 25 games. The North Division has slightly less of a problem with games played by teams varying from 29 to 24 games; in the South Division the variation is from 27 to 20 games.

If Maidstone go to court, they can argue that 3G pitches are approved by FIFA and the FA, and are commerially more viable than grass surfaces; the suggestion that you cannot tackle, or there are more injuries, has prooved to be unfounded, and the football is at least as good as can be played on a grass surface; so all the arguments against the 3G surface can be counterred with documented proof. Probably the most emphatic argument Maidstone can put forward is against the restraint of trade; under British and European law, all parties must have an equal opportunity to trade at the highest level without restrictions.

Going on from this, I suppose that the Welsh Rugby Union are not complying fully with the law at the moment, by only Franchising four teams to play as regions, but should another team such as Pontypridd come up with the money and facilities to compete, then the WRU would be obliged to accomodate them possibly by arranging a play off system, or they could end up facing a court action. (Now that would be an interesting scenario!).

In the Southern League Premier Bideford have played 33 games whereas Poole have only played 23!

I remember Merthyr Tydfil playing at Sutton Coldfield when the pitch was a real mud-bath and I was surprised that the game went ahead.

Maidstone won 5-0 at home to Wingate & Finchley last Saturday, and are still top of the Ryman Isthmian Premier; their attendance was a very creditable 1,723. Looking at their league table it seems that the top three teams, Maidstone, Dulwich and Wealdstone are battling it out for the automatic promotion spot, with the remaining other teams down to about ninth spot all trying for a play off place. Maidstone are away to seventh placed Lowestoft, (who have three games in hand over the leaders) on Saturday, a tough game but should they win it will keep Maidstone as favourites for automatic promotion, which will serve the cause of 3G, by forcing the issue to a legal challenge; From past experience, we now that the Courts can take a very different view to those of the football authorities, as the Welsh FA found out to their cost with the case of Barry and Llanelli last year! The best outcome for Merthyr is if Maidstone become Ryman League Champions, and launch a legal challenge against the Conference; that would and should put the matter to bed once and for all!

I've been keeping a close eye on Maidstone for a couple of years. Mainly because of the 3G Pitch but a lot of aspects seem very professional in all fairness. An online radio station with live commentary of all games and a well thought out website. A great Club to follow in the footsteps of at our level, if only we all had the time.

3G pitches are bound to get the green light soon...they are inevitable ...even .King Canute cannot hold back the 3G tide...even if the English F A get the dredgers out the trickle will become a flood ...then a deluge...Boz

News here that there could be a change to allow artificial pitches in the later rounds of the FA Cup next season:

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/462909/EXCLUSIVE-Plastic-pitches-set-to-return-to-English-football

That's if the Daily Express can be believed.

Note the error in the caption to the third photograph.

To keep referring to plastic pitches in 2014 is as relevant as the Spinning Jenny or a Betamax video recorder....the door is starting to open on 3G and very soon there will be no alternative....Boz

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=25511

Interesting article that, I agree that some teams don't make enough of a special effort to get their game on, I was talking to a Yate Town fan who told me during the recent heavy rainfall they managed to get all their home games on by having a good groundsman and assistants that forked, tended the pitch right up to the Saturday morning of a game, I know for a fact Mangotsfield made every effort to get the game on against us in December by having a group of volunteers forking the pitch days before the Saturday, they knew what a good crowd they would be getting!

Then on the other hand you have teams that apparently don't do NOTHING to get a game on, just relying on the grace of God that their pitch will dry out by Saturday!

The obvious road to go down at our level is compulsory 3G pitches, but I know the blinkered FA blazers and the dinosaur traditionalists will not accept that.

Hi there, I suppose when you're sat at the top of the league and looking good you don't mind an oppo fan coming onto your forum?

As a Maidstone United season ticket holder I obviously have an interest in the 3G debate and it's good to see constructive discussions on here.

Not sure whether you are aware but on the back of the FA's announcement last week Maidstone have "postponed" (No pun intended) their legal threat in the hope that common sense will prevail.

I'm in agreement with this decision as quite often the law and common sense don't see eye to eye and the only real winners would be the lawyers.

Yesterday in the Non League Paper there was an email from a Mr Philip Butler entitled "conference mustn't bow to 3G pressure" in which he goes on about certain clubs being bigger than the FA in certain cases, and are the conference going to allow clubs to dictate the rules?

He states that if Maidstone United land promotion then the league has two choices; either they stand firm or they wobble like jelly and go against the wishes of member clubs.

Whether you are pro 3G or anti 3G this email just highlighted the main issue at the moment in that there isn't actually a valid argument against 3G other than conference clubs decided not to give clubs the choice of having 3G and having a much more sustainable business model.

On Friday night I listened to Bill Archer (Dartford Chairman) live on BT Sport talking about his club, how the council had paid for the ground, how they had a 3G pitch (not their main pitch) which generated income for the club, and how it provides a community feel to the club.......Mr Archer was one of the chairmen who voted against 3G.

Most people are in agreement 3G will be allowed in the future but how we get to that point is anyones guess.

News on the Calor League website that Frome Town of the Premier Division are planning a 3G pitch. They're currently in the lower half of the division, so there seems no question of them winning promotion this season:

'The Club has made a landmark decision to look into the introduction of a 3G surface at the AlderSmith Stadium to replace the current natural grass pitch. This marks a significant change for the Club which chairman Jeremy Alderman explained “It has been well known for the last few years that the town has needed a 3G pitch in order for both children and adults to be able to train and play football. As a Community Club we have decided, after talks with the Football Association and the Somerset FA, that the best option for the town as a whole would be for that 3G pitch to be installed at the stadium. There have been other sites identified within the town but concerns have been lodged by several parties over them and with the majority of the infrastructure already in place it makes us a logical choice. There has been lots of talk over the last few years but nothing seems to have moved on to any great extent which has been a real disappointment which is why we have now stepped in and want to look to complete things as quickly as possible - we believe this move will be in the best interests of the town, all those who play football, and Frome Town FC. This type of facility will also provide full time employment for people so we will also be creating jobs. Since I became involved in the Club my ambition has always been to try and get Frome Town to the Conference and that ambition hasn’t changed”.

'With the decision to install a 3G pitch it means the Club will be unable to gain a further promotion at the current time but Club Secretary Ian Pearce was confident it wouldn’t hold the Robins back for long. "Over the last couple of months there has been a significant change towards the attitude on 3G pitches and just a day after we made our own decision earlier this week the FA also announced its backing for the surfaces and it appears will now be changing its rules to allow them to be used in all FA competitions which is a big change. I had a lengthy talk with Oliver Ash at Maidstone United who has been working tirelessly to get the Football Conference to change their rules to allow them to be used within their leagues and with the news that the FA are keen to see them used more it should only be a matter of time before they are widely accepted. While that is still being worked out it gives us the chance to be able to put everything in place, one of the biggest advantages is it means we won’t have the issues of postponing matches which significantly hits our income as games are always better supported on a Saturday than a midweek and with the weather getting worse every winter it also means we don’t end up with a fixture backlog which fortunately we haven’t had to contend with yet”

'Community Development Officer Gary Collinson was delighted with the news “It’s just what the town needs and to dispel any myths or rumours before they start a key message is that this will be open to use by all clubs and not just Frome Town - we have so many of our own youth teams playing out of town because of lack of facilities but this will mean that we will be able to provide far more for the community now on so many levels. It also shows that the Club really does embrace its community philosophy by putting the town first ahead of its own ambitions of further promotions. However, it doesn’t mean the ambition isn’t still there within the Club and we believe this is a way of helping us get to where we want to be. Clubs in this town pay large fees for sub-standard training facilities and we will have a facility available to everybody with a state of the art surface and all the additional benefits attached like changing rooms and toilets”

'One of the key people who this change will impact on is Manager Adrian Foster who backed the Club’s decision: “Although I am a traditionalist I can see why the Club want to go down this route and I have spoken to the Chairman who has explained the board’s thoughts on it. Obviously it will benefit the style of play we have tried to bring to the Club as it will give us a perfect surface and will also allow us as a Club to develop our community work which is something I am keen to help be a part of so I can see this being a really good long term move as it also gives me a bit of time to be able to put everything together so when promotion is a possibility we will be ready to go. I joined Frome because of the ambition they have as it matches my own as a manager so with our aim of promotion next season it would be extremely frustrating to be blocked because of obstacles put in our way by the Conference. I truly hope that they allow 3G pitches into their competition and follow the apparent route of the FA by endorsing them so not only will the Club and the local community benefit from an excellent facility but as a team we can progress without any barriers in the way”.

'Discussions with key stake holders have already begun and will continue to take place over the coming weeks as the Club look to put a timetable in place while work has already started in obtaining quotes for the works.'


http://www.southern-football-league.co.uk/news/

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9222353/fa-to-allow-non-league-clubs-to-use-artificial-pitches-for-cup-ties

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/466583/Sports-Minister-Helen-Grant-calls-for-change-in-rules-over-3G-pitches

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26717348

This is very good news in the battle to accept 3G pitches. Common sense is beginning to rear its head.

http://www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/latest-news/fa-cup-and-competitions/10214/artificial-turf-returns-to-non-league-football/

MAIDSTONE WIN FA PLAY-OFF APPEAL
From http://nonleague.pitchero.com

The Football Association has ruled that Maidstone United can take part in
the end of season play-offs and the Ryman League is backing the governing
body's decision to allow the Kent club to compete for promotion. Maidstone
won the right to enter the Premier Division play-offs should they finish
high enough at an appeal hearing at Wembley Stadium earlier today.

With the Football Conference's current ban on artificial turf pitches still
in place after the competition's clubs voted against lifting it in January,
the club had been set to be excluded from the Ryman Premier's play-offs.
Following the removal of that obstacle, the club is now expected to lobby
the Football Conference again to reconsider its stance, a move that will be
supported by the Ryman League.

Ryman League chairman Alan Turvey and vice-chairman Nick Robinson both
attended the appeal and will now support the club's ambitions following the
key ruling. Turvey said: "The Ryman League is entirely satisfied with the
decision and we support the policy of the Football Association towards
artificial turf pitches. If Maidstone United go on to qualify for the
play-offs and subsequently win promotion we sincerely hope that the Football
Conference will consider this decision by the FA and its publically stated
support for artificial turf pitches and allow the club to play in the
competition next season."

Looking at Maidstone's recent position in the league, they seem to have lost form and will probably miss out on getting into the play-off's. It's a shame really, as it would have meant that the matter would have been sorted out once and for-all! It looks as though the FA, would have backed Maidstone, as they had already given the go-ahead for them to take part in the play-off's; now it looks as though this matter will rumble on for another season!

I think that should a team with a 3G surface win the legal argument and be accepted into the Conference, then if that team or any other Conference team with such a surface be eligible for promotion into the Football league, then the League would have to admit them, as a legal prescient would have already been established by the Conference.

As I have said in the past, the league chairmen and administrators like to think of themselves as a above the law, but over the years on a number of occaisions the courts have overturned their decisions; (The Welsh FA found this out to their cost just last year, with the case of Barry and Llanelli), they were also overulled some years before that when they tried to force Merthyr and Newport, etc, to play in the Welsh League!