Attendances

There's a debate going on the Poole Forum regarding the top 250 Non League clubs' attendances this season as the result of a table produced in Non League Matters and the link is here -

http://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/global/attendances/

We're 105th in the table with an average attendance of 323 which is the highest in our league. In fact there are only 8 SL Premier clubs with a higher average attendance that us and there are 4 WPL clubs higher than us - Carmarthen & TNS (only just), Aberystwyth and Bangor plus Rhyl in the Cymru Alliance & Caernarfon in the Welsh Alliance and most of those are boosted in the main by large attendances at local derbies which we don't have.

It's interesting and worrying to see on another page of that site that our attendances are 27.58% down on last season. When we first got relegated the 3 leagues quite a few people told me they wouldn't come to watch us as the standard was too low but as soon as we started winning games and were at or near the top of the Western Leagues the crowds increased - especially at Taffs Well - but now we are at a higher standard and near the top the crowds have decreased. There could be a couple of reasons for that - more weeknight games in a more crowded fixture list and our home form has not been too clever - and I suppose we can never find out the real reason why people just don't turn up. Swindon Submarine who were relegated last year find themselves near the top of the table this year and their crowds are up by 15.89% which does show people will come out to watch a winning team. The most eyecatching increase is at Evesham whose crowds are up by 103.23% no doubt as a result of returning to Evesham from Worcester.

Should we hit the top of the league in weeks to come I wonder if the crowds will increase accordingly?

Don't miss the match programme for next Saturday's game against Clevedon to read my thoughts on this subject.

Old Sod wrote:
When we first got relegated the 3 leagues quite a few people told me they wouldn't come to watch us as the standard was too low but as soon as we started winning games and were at or near the top of the Western Leagues the crowds increased

I tend to think the reverse might happen as well - people might say that if we got to the Blue Square South they'd come along to watch the higher standard, but if the team began losing the crowds would decrease soon enough.

I think people will turn out to watch a winning team no matter what the level they're playing at.

I think there are a number of reasons that attendances have declined of late; primarily it's the number of mid-week games, coupled with bad weather. I dont think that the increased addmission cost has helped, but that would probably only accounted for a dozen or so on each gate. I think that given a run of good results at home, and some decent weather, then attendances for the run in to the end of the season will be even better than 2012. Of course there are the Rugby internationals coming up, and they will have an affect on crowds, especially if the weather is cold or wet!

It is also a fact that the majority of fans that follow the martyrs are elderly...the cold weather affects even these stalwarts...do you risk breaking a hip in the snow....or freeze to death in sub zero temperatures at the park.....lots sadly have passed on to the other stadium in the sky.....but it is the fairweather fans...that are the missing numbers..as soon as the weather breaks...they will return hopefully ....especially when we top the league....boz

I'm not seeing many younger fans at games, maybe for the reasons posted up. The kids are the future fans and getting them in will play a big part in years to come.

Tuesday nights on a school night then I wouldn't expect that but on Saturdays we could have loads of them there, spending money in the cafe etc, supporting their local Club, making a bit of noise and trying to make match days "The place to be.

Lets hope the weather gets better in the spring and we are on some good form. I'm sure they will return to cheer the boys on!

The time was when dads would take their children to matches until they were old enough to go by themselves. This doesn't seem to happen so often today, partly probably because of fragmented families.
There doesn't seem to be the real interest in football among youngsters. They may wander around with football jerseys with superstars'names emblazoned on them. But at the very same time they are not bothering to watch the big games on TV.
The current biggest gates at P Park for a league game would have at one time been our worst gates. But this is the case in general in non-League football.When people say they are football fans, they really mean that they watch on the screen.
It's just £1 admission for under 16s to watch Merthyr but we don't see many! Lots of youngsters, other than those who may play themselves on a Saturday, prefer to wander around town.
They may turn up for the occasional big game. We have somehow got to try and capture their interest on a regular basis.

Totally agree! 1 pound entry is a fantastic selling tool. Even little things like a rebrand of match posters to modernise them can make a difference to young people. If we went into schools "Which I know is being planned" we can reach out to them and encourage them to follow the Club. Kids want to go, Its only a quid, they nagg their parents who give in and come along in some cases! Its a knock on effect but its about keeping them coming.

As we are looking at a few more cold tuesday nights games at home , I think it would be a nice gesture to give a free hot drink on presetation of your entry ticket. I dont think it would bring more in but it would show thought from the club to the suporters.

I wonder sometimes if anyone attends a match because they see a poster. There is one displayed every week in Troedyrhiw. I think only six people from that village attend Merthyr matches and they know when there is a game, anyway.
I am not saying there shouldn't be posters but I doubt whether many casual fans turn up after having seen a game advertised, except possibly someone visiting the town area.
I know that in Barry Town's glory days, their full-time players used to visit the schools and give out, I think, free match-day tickets.
I don't know what response we could get from local schools bearing in mind the pressures on them on academic priorities but it is all a part of the club being seen in action in the community as re the Christmas hospital visit.
Of course, it is difficult in that we can't expect Merthyr players to take time out from work to engage in such activities.And as Merthyr charge only £1, I don't think we should offer free tickets to youngsters. This has been tried and with limited success as far as I am aware.
The club carried out a "promotion" exercise pre-season n Merthyr shopping precinct to publicise the club, try and boost Soccalot tickets and advertise the hire of the Candac Suite and yet, as stated, the gates are down from last season despite the club being back in the Southern League. It's a difficult task.

An important factor affecting our mid week attendance is the fact there is no transport after i believe 6pm .Also we have so many matches on the telly midweek like the carling cup european cup premier league etc,It is a hard task to persuade supporters on a freezing cold night to pp in such circumstances.We are probably not getting the media cover like years ago not the fault of the club but those reading the merthyr distress and mail and echoe have probably dropped.As far as promotion we are not going to catch hungerford unless we win all our games in hand which is unlikely and poole have to be favourites.Mind a play off place might create an interest later on.

The media coverage of the past is never going to return. There are no newspaper staff journalists at Merthyr matches these days. despite the club having had to provide Press facilities to enable us to get back to the Southern League. Newspapers have cut staff, advertising revenue is down 40 per cent. Sales of local newspapers are down about the same. Having said that, I think the club gets a fair amount of publicity for a club of this level. Years ago, there wasn't the Internet and then folk depended on newspapers.
And most people should know that on most Saturdays Merthyr are either home or away. The trouble is that with Saturday games being postponed and re-scheduled for Tuesdays, we will see a decline in gates and there is a knock-on effect re ancillary sales.
Only the ardent fans will venture out on a cold night, unfortunately.

Yeh its really tricky isn't it! I know I've mentioned it before but I do feel that Adult entry prices are not great and I know there's not a lot that can be done about that. I try to encourage mates to come along and are a little put off by the price.

I'd be more than happy to help with any ticket push to boost attendences. It never happens overnight of course but it's worth a try for new season too! After another promotion maybe? (I hope)

Maybe I can try a push on Martyrs TV

Supporters want Merthyr to get successive promotions and this automatically means a hike in admission prices. So if they can't or don't want to pay the £8 at this level, how will they pay what could be double, for example, if Merthyr ever reached The BSP?
If Cardiff and Swansea were struggling, we might pull in some more fans. But we aren't going to pinch support from them as we did when Merthyr Tydfil were in the Conference. So it's difficult to see where we can get the extra crowds from on a regular basis.

Yeh decreasing ticket prices isn't really an option for many reasons which I totally respect. I didn't even know U16 got in for a pound to be honest. There's a slogan the "Kids for a Quid!!"

Get that about and see what happens haha!. It's still a very tricky thing to do and it won't happen overnight of course. We all want to see really good crowds there, it's just finding the best way to do so. Trying to distribute the Club's name all over the place and shoving down people's throats is the best way I think!

Yes, Matt. Keep it going, spread the message!

All admission prices are given on the club's website:-

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/merthyrtown/a/match-day-prices-23958.html

I am sure that there are many parents, that are unaware it is only £1 admission to PP for children, and it would be a good idea to try and give that fact more publicity. It is doubtfull however that many parents would be motivated to send their children out on a cold or wet January evening, when they are far happier to have them at home in the warm, safe in the knowledge that they are mesmerised by their Wee or Playstation, etc.

I find that £8 admission for adults is reasonable, and it is not the price, but rather the weather I believe puts people off attending mid-week games. I am sure there will be many more people prepared to attend a Tuesday evening game in October or March, when the temperature may be around 12 deg's, rather that in December or January when it is hovering just above freezing.

The admission price does deter some people, as Merthyr is an area of high unemployemnt, and low wages, but even those areas of Southern England, where their average standard of living is much higher than that of the South Wales Valleys, have experienced a decline in their attendances; probable due to the fact that there are far more other options, and requirements for their personal budgets.

It is doubtfull that our average attendance, even in the Southern League Premier division would exceed 400, and even if we were lucky enough to one day get back into the Conference Premier, we would strugle to average gates of more than 1,000. It would require a massive turn around in the fortunes of not only the football club, but also the economic revival of the whole area to sustain our club at that level. Wishful thinking!

Martyr Weaver wrote:
It is doubtfull that our average attendance, even in the Southern League Premier division would exceed 400, and even if we were lucky enough to one day get back into the Conference Premier, we would strugle to average gates of more than 1,000. It would require a massive turn around in the fortunes of not only the football club, but also the economic revival of the whole area to sustain our club at that level. Wishful thinking!

We did average 446 for league games last season, although that was skewed slightly by two 700+ gates, and even managed 310 when people had to travel to Taffs Well. But of course that was to support a winning team challenging for championships. It remains to be seen how attendances will work out for the rest of this season now home form has improved in terms of wins, and the fact that we are still challenging for promotion, even if it may turn out to be through the play-offs.

If we should get to the Premier Division or even higher and have an average season, then I agree we'd be lucky to get 400+. When Merthyr were last in the Conference the figures show that their average attendance was only over 1,000 for the first season then it was downhill after that.

People will always turn out to support a winning team, but it's the old question of how that team is to be provided (i.e. funded). We've seen what happened when the club got into debt before, and there are examples all the time now of clubs getting into trouble by spending money at levels they can't sustain. It's a difficult line to tread between keeping a club financially viable and keeping people wanting to turn up to matches. This is why I'm in favour of the various off-field developments (artificial pitch and all) planned for the club.

We couldn't expect young children to attend midweek games by themselves. But it would be good for more dads to introduce their children to matches on a Saturday, at least.That's how many started.
In our last season in the then Conference, the gates dropped to the 400 mark. I don't think we would get a 1,000 average if we reached the BSP unless we were near the top of the league and no-one can guarantee that. And would there be any chance of us being a full-time club??
It IS very difficult in Merthyr with the economic situation so, therefore, we are in all ways a long way from the BSP. To begin with, Penydarren Park has not got the grade for that.
And how many fans could, or would, pay BSP admission charges.
These are the Newport County charges: Adults: £17 Bisley Stand, £15 Hazell Stand, Seniors and Students £13 and £11; Under 16s £8 and £5; Under 12s £5 either stand. Under Sixes- free.
One way of boosting midweek gates could be if supporters were able to offer lifts to those who are without cars. I know this does happen now but if others announce they are able to offer a lift to others, it could make a difference.Likewise, on Bank Holidays when there is usually no public transport.
And we are fortunate that we have lots of support from outside Merthyr, eg, Bristol, Carmarthen, Caerphilly, Tredegar, Pontypool, Swansea, Hirwaun, Aberdare, Rhymney, Rhondda etc!!

Yeh I think Saturday games are the best time to try and get the youngsters in because of it's ease. It's a shame we have a lot of Tuesday evening games really. I think we may see an increase at the end of the season, especially if we are in a play-off battle.

I know the kids prices are on the website but I don't think it's enough personally, but it will take time obviously.

Doesn't it give admission prices on those shop window posters that were mentioned earlier? I never look that closely at them myself. Maybe the under-16 and concessions prices especially could be mentioned in the Merthyr Express now and again?

Apart from in the editions for the pre-season friendlies I don't give them in the match programme, reasoning that if people are reading it they have already paid to get into the ground. But, there again, it might be worth drawing attention to the concessions, etc.

I think the bad weather,plus the close proximity to the Christmas hangover period has definitely had a knock on effect on attendances at home games. Also the number of postponed fixtures,and the cup run's has disrupted the league programme quite a bit,so there's been a marked lack of flow to the season so far.
I personally haven't been able to get to as many weekend home games this season due to work commitments,as it's difficult to find cover,and the prospect of the Six Nations Rugby on the horizon isn't going to help matters much either.Ironically,I have no problems with the midweek games,but they've almost all been rescheduled lately. 2 months of bucketing down rain has done us no favours at all.
I normally go to the matches with my son David who's away at the moment for 6 months with the RN,so that accounts for 2 home regulars off the depleted gate.
Frustratingly,a case of lack of opportunity rather than lack of interest.

Just realized that we play taunton home next tuesday but dissapointed to see that sunderland and swansea play the same night and is shown live on sky. It is impossible to compete with that to attract extra supporters through the gate.Iff only we could be flexible as to whether we play on a tuesday or wednesday for the benefit of the clubs.Many of these televised games are known in advance and it is to the benefit of all clubs iff the league would allow us to manipulate the nights to the advantage of all clubs .Man u play real madrid shortly hope we have no home fixture that night

I think Southern League clubs have to decide pre-season what night they want to play midweek games. And then, of course, the fixtures are compiled for the whole of the season.Some leagues, such as The South Wales Amateur League, compile games more or less a month in advance.
Visiting teams in the Southern League need to know when their away games are so that players can sort out their work commitments etc.
Some SL clubs play on Monday nights which, in my opinion, doesn't give players much time to recover from knocks on a Saturday.
And if midweek games were switched around on an ad hoc basis, it would cause problems with training nights.
There seems to be football on Sky TV almost every Tuesday. And then we hear of people who say they can't afford to watch Merthyr play and yet they can subscribe to Sky TV!!!