Penydarren Park - Research Assistance

Hello all

Firstly, my apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong section.

I'm writing this in the hope someone may be able to offer assistance.

Yesterday, I visited Penydarren Park as part of a book I am researching on Britain's must see grounds.

As part of my research, I purchased David Watkins's 'Memories Of Penydarren Park' from the club shop. Although an excellent point of reference, it mainly covers 1945 onwards.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a website, book or material source that covers Penydarren Park from its earliest beginnings? I'm heading off to Cardiff library tomorrow to review some archives, but thought it would be good to reach out on here in case anyone has some useful information. I should stress that it's the ground, rather than the club, I am focusing on.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

There is a book entitled Merthyr Town FC 1908-1934 - a History by Philip Sweet.

If you text or ring me (John Strand) on 07949623722 I will try to put you in touch with Mr Sweet, who may have a copy available.

Admin wrote:There is a book entitled Merthyr Town FC 1908-1934 - a History by Philip Sweet.

If you text or ring me (John Strand) on 07949623722 I will try to put you in touch with Mr Sweet, who may have a copy available.

A great suggestion.

I've just seen a copy on eBay, so will purchase it!

Another book by David Watkins is 'Images of Sport: Merthyr Tydfil Football Club', published by Tempus publishing in1999. It's mainly pictorial and covers the whole period from 1908 onwards.

Also by Philip Sweet is 'Merthyr Tydfil AFC 1945-1954 The Glory Years', published by TTC Books, and a supplement to it in booklet form covering the seasons 1955/56 and 1956/57.  These may be of particular interest due to their coverage of the fact that the greyhound racing track at Penydarren Park seems to have been the main factor in the club failing to be elected to the Football League in the post-war period, including details of the abortive plans to move to a new ground on which construction had begun in a very small way.

I have purchased all those books mentioned from the oldMerthyrTydfil web site which is excellent

Philip Sweet also produced a booklet for the anniversary of the ground for football entitled 100 Years Ago which covers that first season of 1908/09. That's also well worth a look.

The ground was originally used for rugby union and also briefly rugby league so you'll need to look at those sports too.

I had forgotten about the 100 years ago booklet. There is information about the use of the ground before formation of MTFC. It is out of print, but luckily I printed it, and have located it on my computer. I can send a rough print Mike - unbound etc, printed on one side of paper, if you email me your address to strand@salisburyclose.fsnet.co.uk.

Out of interest what is your criteria for "must see" grounds and why us?

Dial M lads had a great time at Wingate & Finchley the season before last on our way to the Ally Pally for the darts. Match v Hampton & Richmond. Even sung a few songs with the home support.

Unique style stand on the one side and a tidy clubhouse although we had to wait for the delivery of the TV that day as the original had been stolen overnight.

Great welcome and we still keep an eye out for the results.

Admin wrote:Out of interest what is your criteria for "must see" grounds and why us?

It was a public vote, organised via a blog site (which I can't post here as my membership restricts URL posting - if you Google '100 Grounds Project Blogspot' you'll see it). The criteria was deliberately subjective, to allow a wider range of grounds to be included.

So, it was the general public who voted. Some examples of the nominations for Penydarren Park can be found below:

"lovely ground, terracing, really friendly stewards, brand new all-weather pitch and tasty chips and curry sauce."

"a must see old-school ground with loads of terracing"

Harry Swift wrote:Dial M lads had a great time at Wingate & Finchley the season before last on our way to the Ally Pally for the darts. Match v Hampton & Richmond. Even sung a few songs with the home support.

Unique style stand on the one side and a tidy clubhouse although we had to wait for the delivery of the TV that day as the original had been stolen overnight.

Great welcome and we still keep an eye out for the results.

We enjoyed having you boys down. It's still talked of very fondly in North London.

Shame WinFin were dire on the day, but you can't have it all.

I normally do my Wanderin' comment about now, however on a more serious note, the likes of Meurig and Phil H would be worth interviewing (if they were willing). Dare say they could tell a story or two about the Martyrs.

And - who knows - maybe even one or two may be interesting (sorry, couldn't resist)!!

Merthyr Imp wrote:Another book by David Watkins is 'Images of Sport: Merthyr Tydfil Football Club', published by Tempus publishing in1999. It's mainly pictorial and covers the whole period from 1908 onwards.

Also by Philip Sweet is 'Merthyr Tydfil AFC 1945-1954 The Glory Years', published by TTC Books, and a supplement to it in booklet form covering the seasons 1955/56 and 1956/57.  These may be of particular interest due to their coverage of the fact that the greyhound racing track at Penydarren Park seems to have been the main factor in the club failing to be elected to the Football League in the post-war period, including details of the abortive plans to move to a new ground on which construction had begun in a very small way.

Yes it was the fact the greyhound track at Penydarren Park denied the Martyrs a place in the Football League. After we had won the SL in season 1949-50 hopes were raised that we would regain Football League status when it was proposed to extend the league from 88 to 92 clubs. However these dreams were dashed when the then league president declared at the meeting to elect new members.

"I must remind clubs that it was a decision of this meeting in 1946 that no new club will be admitted to the Football League if they have greyhound racing on their ground"

Martyrs received just one solitary vote from near neighbours Cardiff City.

Evening all. Just wanted to say a massive thanks to everyone who has contributed to my research on Penydarren Park so far. There is one (rather vital) question that I’m still struggling a little with, and it may be someone on here can help.

Philip Sweet’s book, along with a few other websites, make reference to the Rugby club subletting Penydarren Park from the Athletics club around 1902. Further documents suggest it was developed into something resembling a sports ground after this date. It begs the question, what was Penydarren Park prior to 1902? Was it just an athletics track or municipal ‘sports venue’?

Any help on this one is appreciated.

See Wikipedia entry for Penydarren - the following is a quote "The filling in of the former fish pond marked at Bryant's Field allowed the development of Penydarren Park between 1902 and 1905, during which additional excavation of the Roman fort was undertaken by Frank Treharne-James."

The planning department used to keep very old plans there of Merthyr Too....certainly pre 1900....Merthyr Library may help too....Boz

Philip Sweet has provided the following additional info:

Penydarren Park was part of the grounds of Penydarren House. It was given to Merthyr Athletic Club in the early 20th century by the Bolgoed Estate, which owned much of Penydarren, initially on a lease for 21 years and the covenant in the lease was that it only be used for sport.

I'm spending this evening ploughing through the books, notes and references I've gathered. It's a truly fascinating club.

A couple of questions from my research have come up, and again, I'll post them here in the hope someone may know the answer:

1. What years was Greyhound racing active at the ground?
2. What activities (if any) were held at Penydarren Park between Merthyr Town folding and Merthyr Tydfil starting up?
3. When was the main terraced stand with the pitch roofed built that exists today? Looking at some photos of the ground it suggests possibly the 1950s (http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/penydarren_park.htm) although this is based on an element of guess work. Philip Sweet’s excellent book makes reference to a 2,000 capacity grandstand circa 1919 but I’d be surprised if this is the same one.

Re a couple of your questions:

2. Philip Sweet's book covering the years 1945-1954 mentions on page 2 that when Merthyr Tydfil FC was formed in 1945 Penydarren Park '...was rented on an annual basis to the Education Committee for use by schools in the Borough'. But it doesn't say how long that had been going on.

3. Philip Sweet's book on the old Merthyr Town has a small photo on the last page showing the ground in the late 1930s. It shows the old main stand that is on the site of the present seated one. When the old stand was replaced I'm not sure. There's an aerial photo of the ground in 1975 in a couple of books which shows what appears to be a much smaller stand on the same site. I would query the date of the 1960s given to the photo on the Alan George site in your reference - it looks more like the 1980s to me (not that I was around here in those days. I'm sure some of the longer-established supporters on here might have some memory of the developments there.

The existing covered terracing opposite the main stand that you mention is shown under construction in a photo (page 67) of the chapter of Philip Sweet's 1945-1954 book dealing with the 1949/50 season. It mentions in the text (page 64) that £2,000 had been 'allocated for building the new stand on the popular side'. From photos it looks as if it was initially just a roof with no back. There is a photo on page 95 of 'concrete terracing being laid under the new stand during the summer of 1951'. That covered terracing can be seen in many photos from that period onwards, and of course though altered and extended is basically still the same today. I would add a personal note that in my opinion that side of the ground and the bank of open terracing behind the goal, especially before the top part was removed, is better than existed at a good many grounds in the old Football League Fourth Division right up to the 1980s.

According to the website greyhoundderby.com the stadium was used for greyhound racing from the early 1930s to the early 1960s

The original upper section of the wooden grandstand burnt down in December 1966 leaving the concrete base and eight or nine rows of concrete terracing that was used until new changing rooms were built in the early 70's, with seating and a roof provided to a re-built grandstand.

The current grandstand was extended and improved in 1987.

This is totally unrelated to football, but on an historical note,as well as the stadium being built on a Roman Fort, further evidence of which was discovered last year when new floodlight uprights were installed, within a few hundred yards of the ground ran the first ever steam locomotive (The Penydarren Locomotive designed by Richard Trevithick) in the world to haul a train in 1804.

I remember the greyhound track still there in the late 1950s and early 1960s although I never watched any of the racing. I think the Press Box used (when journalists attended matches- often three locals as well as visitors) actually belonged to the greyhound company. I know there were two phones in use there-one I think may have belonged to the greyhound company and one to Exchange Telegraph who we (the Press at the time) would ring with results for them to appear in the regional sports editions and the Sunday papers etc). All calls were transfer charge ones anyway.
When the old grandstand burnt down, the players changed in the nearby old YMCA building which is currently being restored. The late Harry Griffiths was then Merthyr manager. At that time, of course there was no Strikers club. A Portakabin was used in the 1960s as a small bar (The Rhys Tavern) as well as the manager's office. The board room and hospitality room was just a wooden building probably near the site of the current away team dressing rooms. Of course, the current grandstand was extended in 1987 before Merthyr played Atalanta in the European Cup Winners Cup. A large section on the left-hand side of the stand was used to accommodate the many journalists who attended.
After the fire in the Sixties, for some time there was not actually a Press Box at the Park, with Press just sitting in the stand.A Box was later established.
As Imp mentions, the open terracing behind the goal was quite impressive at the Theatre Royal end. And, of course, there was a time when there were turnstiles that side of the ground. Some have asked if they can be restored to shorten the walk for some fans but this seems unlikely as i think there are housing plans nearby.

Tim Drummond wrote:
..the Theatre Royal end. And, of course, there was a time when there were turnstiles that side of the ground.

Am I right in remembering they were last used for the Walsall match in 2005?

I have been informed by the Housing Association building the houses that the path leading to that turnstile will not be retained, so there will be no possibility of a turnstile there in the future.