Another welsh club goes under

Reading today that Llanelli AFC have been wound up in court. Neath of course not long ago and I understand Afan Lido are in dire straits.

The dreaded tax-man is at it again! But when you look at the state of the Welsh Premier, only a handful of clubs are getting attendances of more than 150; probably Bangor City being the best supported. The teams involved get more than their fair share of publicity, with plenty of coverage on TV, with S4C showing live games on a Saturday, and recorded highlights on several evenings in the week, also in the Welsh Daily's, and the Wales on Sunday Newspaper. They are even listed on BBC'S text service, where the Southern league is not. You would think that by now the grounds would have been improved, the grass banks for terracing at a number of their grounds would have been replaced with concrete steps, ( as it looks awful seeing the grass banks this day and age on TV; it's like watching parks football). With the reward for finishing top being entry into the Champions league, and a further three teams being entered in the Europa league, the attendances should be equivalent to those of the Blue Square Premier; i.e around 2,000 instead of 200 !!!
The standard of football is actually decent enough, and it's sad to see Llanelli go the same way as Neath, but It's the Welsh FA, who are failing to raise the profile of the league, and also improve the standard of the football grounds, which should be the same benchmark as the Blue Square Premier; this can be done a little at a time, with a year on year improvement schedule.

I think there is one ground which seems to have children's swings inside the stadium!
The clubs and supporters would suggest that the standard of the WP is about the same as the Blue Square Premier. I wouldn't say that but the standard has improved judging by some of the matches on TV. Yet the gates went down last season, and watching some scenes on TV, I suggest that some of the stated attendances seem somewhat inflated.
Some clubs which get into Europe seem to do all-right financially and some players are picking ip good wages but the casualties suggest that all is not well in The WP and losing two S Wales teams recently (Llanelli are going to appeal but...)puts the emphasis on the north of the country.

Right before Neath went tits up they were paying for their squad to stay overnight in Bala.

It was a disaster from the start, as is to be expected with the FAW. They should have split it into southern and northern sections so there would be less travelling and more local derbies for bigger crowds then had playoffs between the best teams from each.

It certainly isn't BSBP standard but crowds are lower than they should be considering the level of football and even more so when you consider how cheap the admission is.

I agree with all of those comments. S4C tend to try and boost its image with a live match on a Saturday afternoon but when the cameras show a few fans dotted here and there at some grounds, it doesn't exactly do much for the league.
I remember a few years ago, some keen supporter stating on various forums "Port Talbot are the best team in Wales.! !!!

The cause of all these clubs going to the wall is because they see qualification for Europe and an away tie at some nondescript European club side as the Holy Grail, and clubs such as Neath and Llanelli haven't learnt the lesson from Barry 20 years ago. I remember them signing ex Cardiff City players such as Chris Pike and others, exactly the same as clubs have done recently, a prime example being Neath who were paying Lee Trundle £2k a week - where did they think that was going to get them other than being wound up?
The Welsh FA hold the WPL up as the competition all Welsh clubs should strive to play in but it's always been a shambles, summed up by Corbett Sports (?) being the main sponsor. We all remember when they tried to make "The Exiles" play in it, opposing our historical exitence in the English pyramid, but the New Saints, currently top of the WPL by 19 points, play over the border in England, which is quite funny really and says it a lot about the competition and the people who run it.

True, 'TNS' are the old Oswestry team, from the English side of the Border; I seem to remember another English team, 'Kington' also playing in the Mid Wales league, but they have dropped out of that league now; there may be more English border country teams playing at the lower levels of the Welsh pyramid system; (anybody know?). Will 'TNS' have to play their European Champions league home game in Wales or will they be allowed to play in England? Again it is not only in Wales that we have the anomaly of an English club not playing in it's own pyramid, as Berwick although Technically English, play in the Scottish league. I agree with what Tim has said about the crowds shown on TV at Welsh Premiership games; it often looks like three men and a dog, and it's the grass banks for terraces that I think look awful! There is no way that would be allowed in the BSP.

The thing about Berwick is they've always played in the Scottish League. We had the opposite situation with Gretna, who were a club based in Scotland playing in an English competition (the Northern Premier League as was). When they decided to join the Scottish League you couldn't argue with that, unfortunately they then over-reached themselves fianancially.

TNS are really Llansantffraid, who technically merged with (but effectively took over) Oswestry, as far as i can make out solely in order that they could play in a bigger place on a better ground. So unlike Berwick, who haven't changed at all, and Gretna who changed to play in their own country, TNS somehow have managed to get away with moving OUT of their own country but still playing in that country's competition.

I agree with Fistral's last comment.

The only way I can see the WPL progressing is with a Summer League. If it is planned correctly I'm sure it will head in the right direction.

Someone I know at Aberdare Town said they were enjoing much improved crowds at thr start of the season, When the winter came they didn't play for 2 Months and they were back to square one!

Even if TNS get to a Champions League qualifier, they will get stuffes by some Latvian team because they have already started their season in the Summer.

It's a bold move but I think it needs to happen!

I hate to say it, being usually a supporter of all things Welsh, but the Welsh Premiership has proved itself to be an unsustainable dead end. It offers nothing beyond a ritual early-season hammering for the top club by a team from Abercwmstan or wherever.

The game in Wales is dominated by Swansea and Cardiff in the South and Liverpool and Everton in the North, but the Welsh teams other than the big two in the English pyramid - Newport, Wrexham, Colwyn Bay and us - attract more interest than Welsh Premiership clubs, with Newport and Wrexham vying for promotion to the Football League, Colwyn Bay on the brink of a houdini-style escape from relegation from Conference North and us on the way back up. Those WP clubs and other Welsh clubs lower down, competing against the attractions of rugby and powerful neighbours would, I think, fare better back in the English pyramid, where there is always the hope of meaningful progress. The fate of Barry - and now Neath and Llanelli (all substantial towns by Welsh standards) - provides a lasting lesson which those in charge ignore at their peril, however much they or we might wish it was otherwise.

Yip that's a solid point! They can't go on the way they are, something drastic has to happen!

I'm glad we didn't get pushed into the Welsh League system a few years ago

http://s4c.co.uk/sgorio/2013/y-gynghrair-yn-ymateb-i-golli-llanelli/

We are looking at the Welsh Premiership but we must also remember just three seasons ago how Southern League club Merthyr Tydfil folded with an estimated £600,000 debts.
It was fortunate that the people of the Trust at the time were able to get a spark from the ashes and set up Merthyr Town.Their hard work has paid off.
However, of course, starting from scratch meant no debts. All the creditors of Merthyr Tydfil FC lost out big time as will any creditors of Llanelli and Neath. So as well as mourning the loss of such clubs to the community, we must consider the firms, players etc who are out of pocket because clubs were run at an unsustainable level.
And it may be all-right to criticise the people who ran clubs which got into trouble but fans must bear some of the blame when they call for success, just expecting Mr Money Bags to throw all his money in their direction. Then they vent fury on the owners when the clubs fold.
That's why Merthyr is now a community club and must cut the suit according to the cloth.

The Challenge is to run the Club as a community business, not as fans concentrating on things on the pitch!

Yes I dont think these problems are exclusive to Welsh clubs & Welsh football, loads of clubs up and down the divisions are struggling..

I did have a very long winded reply to this thread but I will keep it basic out of the respect for some good mates I have involved with trying to save Llanelli FC in particular, clubs that continue to pay out on players wages over and above what they receive in spendable revenue will always suffer, continue to accumalte debt and eventualy whilt a die when the chairman pulls the pin, those who are able to cut their cloth accordingly, run sustainably, find their level if you like, should survive, consolodate, and with a bit of luck eventually grow particularly if its support, hardcore fanbase and community allows it too, and we are certainly no exeption to this in my view.

http://s4c.co.uk/sgorio/e_/2013/byw-yng-nghysgod-y-cewri/

Article in English.

Totally agree! As passionate people may be about their Club doing well on the pitch for 90 minutes, I'd rather see people in charge of a Club looking at it as a business. Whether it's how much a kit costs to promo material etc.

Thr WPL is a mess, how a Club can survive in the Welsh Pyramid is beyond me. At least we always have a chance of progression!